sac up is fuc*ed up again

[Cascade_Crawler]

Rode up Sac-up during the clean up with Glen, sad sight to see. 1/2 way through the trail (in the clearing with the rock/stump obstacle) our barricade on the right has been moved again. Fresh tracks from someone with boggers. Further up the trail there has been a fresh bypass punched through on the right with those same fresh bogger tracks in it. pretty sad we have to keep doing this shit

[Jason]

yes, it is sad....however I wonder if the people that keep tearing the blockages down do not realize that they are illegal bypasses. I think that when we get back up there we need to have some of Karl's signs to put up with the blockages

[War-Jeeper]

this is why we have those monthly work parties though, too keep up with the dumb shits that pull this

[CrustyJeep]

We need to do something a little tougher, and a little more obviously intentional.

I'm thinking anti personel mines.

[Kat JK]

how about something al little less explosive like gernades.

[zuk88]

:mad: I wonder how cemented steel polls would do?

[86runner]

:mad: I wonder how cemented steel polls would do?

(Ballards) If you put them about 3 to 4 feet in the ground. You could even use them as winch ponts.

No I work commercial construction, we mount them in the slab with rebar but slab on grade we place them about 3 foot be low bottom of slab. A 8000 lbs fork lift can run in to them and not mess them up.

[spidertoy]

unfortuneately the ground in that area, would make it difficult to get something like that deep enough, we will just have to figure something similar to the wall closure, I think that would have the best chance

[86runner]

unfortuneately the ground in that area, would make it difficult to get something like that deep enough, we will just have to figure something similar to the wall closure, I think that would have the best chance

I dont know how the ground is, but could you get a bobcat with a ogger. or a backhoe. either of them could dig deep enough I think. If either of them would work for ya. My united rentals guy owes me a favor and i think i could get them to bring one out for a day. Thats if he has one, they have not been able to get me stuff for a while.

[Kat JK]

Rhonda and I were riding the roads and noticed the the blockage we put up at the top of sac-up has been chain sawed down.

Kat

[War-Jeeper]

Rhonda and I were riding the roads and noticed the the blockage we put up at the top of sac-up has been chain sawed down.

Kat


fawk and that tree landed there so perfect too

[Kat JK]

no poop, it was almost acrobatic

[War-Jeeper]

no poop, it was almost acrobatic


karl has chainsaw skillz lol

[jobless]

Yep, it's fucked. People must be real bored to spend all that time moving trees & shit out of the bypass's

[CrustyJeep]

How does the stuff down around the first stream crossing look?

[jobless]

How does the stuff down around the first stream crossing look?

Fucked.

[CrustyJeep]

Well, I don't know how much further we'll be able to go without being worse than the ass hats we're trying to stop.

[Cascade_Crawler]

WTF. I dont understand what the appeal of multiple bypasses is, and why dipshits are working so hard to keep them open? Its not like the hard shit is blocked, and every obstacle already has an easy bypass...? We cant continue to spend man hours blocking bypasses if they are cut up in a matter of days. We loose motivation and material. Is sac up a lost cause?

[CrustyJeep]

WTF. I dont understand what the appeal of multiple bypasses is, and why dipshits are working so hard to keep them open? Its not like the hard shit is blocked, and every obstacle already has an easy bypass...? We cant continue to spend man hours blocking bypasses if they are cut up in a matter of days. We loose motivation and material. Is sac up a lost cause?I think it's personal now. People are stupid.

[Kat JK]

What about getting it fixed again but stronger then getting some signs like this.

[War-Jeeper]

What about getting it fixed again but stronger then getting some signs like this.



how do you suggest making it stronger without destroying more of the area?

[CrustyJeep]

What about getting it fixed again but stronger then getting some signs like this.The problem with that is, currently, there is nothing any more or less legal about the real trail then any other off road area at Rieter.

[Kat JK]

how do you suggest making it stronger without destroying more of the area?

My thaught had been trying to find some people we know who work for state or local DOT's that can get a hold of left over or used guard rails to make our blockages more solid. Just an idea.

Kat

[Comet]

This is just like garbage and car dumping out there. People will keep doing it until it becomes such a pain in the ass that they give up. I also think it's personal, and people that want to mess with RTW. I don't think we need to advertise with RTW cut in to the logs anymore, but we do need to just keep on top of it. Big rocks would help, or cement posts dug deep into the ground. But we'd need heavy equipment for both.

[lupinsea]

I would hope the signs would work. . . something to explain why some by-passes are blocked off. But for some reason I suspect they'd be cut down, too, and removed.

I seriously don't understand why people don't respect obviously blocked bypass routes. Last time I ran the trail (which was a while ago) it wasn't all that hard to figure out that certain area are supposed to be off limits. And looking around it's not like I felt deprived of the experience those area offered. They didn't seem any different than the trail.

CrustyJeep has a good point, I think. If the legal status of the current trails is so nebulous and people know this it seems like it makes it that much harder to try to persuade people (through signs, guardrails, blocked bypasses, or whatever) to stick to a particular route.

Reiter has always struck me as a bit of a no-mans land. A place that doesn't have any clear, distinct rules or governing land owner. And I think that fact makes it attractive to a certain rules-be-damned, individualistic, maverick personality. Just the sort who will always find other's notions of where he may not go (via blocked by-passed) offensive and work to open up more trail area.

Sort of like grown ups telling a child they may not do something only makes the child want to do it that much more.






BTW, I have noticed the signs and fencing (chain link?) around Reiter Pond are still intact and the signs look pretty weather worn indicating to me they've been up a while without people trying to take them down.

Perhaps some regular metal fence stakes and fencing? Stupid, I know, but maybe it's enough to get the poiint across. Then in a few years that will either be over grown and hidden or it could be taken out when vegetation has been established enough. Maybe the fencing with explanatory signs would be enough?

[Comet]

Those signs around the pond used to get ripped down too. Persevernce on the part of the people that cleaned that area up is what happened. The people ripping them down finally gave up.

[jobless]

Those signs around the pond used to get ripped down too. Persevernce on the part of the people that cleaned that area up is what happened. The people ripping them down finally gave up.

Yep, it's just a matter of who gives up first.

[CrustyJeep]

Our only real hope is to continue as we have been. We can't escalate the barriers until there is 500 tons of concrete on Sacup in the hopes that we can then rest.

[jruz]

But we'd need heavy equipment for both.

I've never been on Sac Up, but I'd like to help out if I can. The UNIMOG has a 1.5t payload and should be able to navigate any rough terrain leading up to the area that needs blocking. (I do have a winch on it too, if that helps at all)

Just a warning that I'm a bit of a fair-weather wheeler in this rig, mainly due to the long/loud drive from North Bend to Gold Bar. Anyway, I hope I can help out with this.

Jim

Edit: And it has a pintle hook on the back if there were a trailer & back-hoe (or something) to be pulled up there.

[Binder]

I think many people do this kind of thing because they know RTW did the work. RTW lost the respect of much of the wheeling community (more like never earned it) early on and that has not changed.
Anything you build out there is going to be viewed as a challenge to the asshats. Unfortunately this probably won't change any time soon.

[War-Jeeper]

I think many people do this kind of thing because they know RTW did the work. RTW lost the respect of much of the wheeling community (more like never earned it) early on and that has not changed.
Anything you build out there is going to be viewed as a challenge to the asshats. Unfortunately this probably won't change any time soon.


so would you suggest not advertising on the logs over the trails that we did it then?

[Binder]

so would you suggest not advertising on the logs over the trails that we did it then?

I agree but I don't think that's going to completely fix this problem.
I don't want to get into this much, just wanted to give my opinion on the current situation.

[jobless]

so would you suggest not advertising on the logs over the trails that we did it then?

In order for anything to eventually be takin seriously at Reiter it has to have the DNR's name on it, not the RTW's...and not the Timber Tamers (TT)...

[War-Jeeper]

I agree but I don't think that's going to completely fix this problem.
I don't want to get into this much, just wanted to give my opinion on the current situation.

thanks for the imput!

In order for anything to eventually be takin seriously at Reiter it has to have the DNR's name on it, not the RTW's...and not the Timber Tamers (TT)...

we talked to David Way the recreation manager for reiter about getting some signs through DNR we will see if that goes anywhere soon, they are saying everything is a slow process right now

[jobless]

thanks for the imput!



we talked to David Way the recreation manager for reiter about getting some signs through DNR we will see if that goes anywhere soon, they are saying everything is a slow process right now

Everything with the DNR is a slow process, it's just normal.

[Comet]

Well, I agree with the not advertising-I've said as much before. As for never earning the respect of the wheeling community, that's an opinion. We hear both sides and the positive feedback far outweighs the negative. The negative just gets way more publicity.

[War-Jeeper]

Everything with the DNR is a slow process, it's just normal.


yep, typical of a government agency though

[Binder]

As for never earning the respect of the wheeling community, that's an opinion. We hear both sides and the positive feedback far outweighs the negative. The negative just gets way more publicity.

You can believe what you want it's your shit that gets torn down. Internet feed back really is worthless. You need to get out and communicate with people in the real world.:)

[mark]

What about getting it fixed again but stronger then getting some signs like this.

we talked to David Way the recreation manager for reiter about getting some signs through DNR we will see if that goes anywhere soon, they are saying everything is a slow process right now

Well, I agree with the not advertising-I've said as much before. As for never earning the respect of the wheeling community, that's an opinion. We hear both sides and the positive feedback far outweighs the negative. The negative just gets way more publicity.

yep, typical of a government agency though

Why wait for the DNR?

I like the sign that Kat posted, have the DNR rep approve it (i.e. hey David, you got any problems with use having something like this made up?? No, sign here.) Then take it to a print shop and have a few made up. Get a couple people to pitch in and the cost won't be too much. Start with plastic, and graduate to other materials as need be (and more $$ comes available). Ask for reimbursements from the DRN will probably (guess/opinion) be faster than waiting for signage from them.


just a thought. As a causal wheeler, a sign does a lot farther (to me) than just a simple blockage on what looks like a road.

[jobless]

Why wait for the DNR?

I like the sign that Kat posted, have the DNR rep approve it (i.e. hey David, you got any problems with use having something like this made up?? No, sign here.) Then take it to a print shop and have a few made up. Get a couple people to pitch in and the cost won't be too much. Start with plastic, and graduate to other materials as need be (and more $$ comes available). Ask for reimbursements from the DRN will probably (guess/opinion) be faster than waiting for signage from them.


just a thought. As a causal wheeler, a sign does a lot farther (to me) than just a simple blockage on what looks like a road.

There have been signs erected by te users of Reiter...they are simply removed by the other users at Reiter...

[Scoundrel]

I think many people do this kind of thing because they know RTW did the work. RTW lost the respect of much of the wheeling community (more like never earned it) early on and that has not changed.
Anything you build out there is going to be viewed as a challenge to the asshats. Unfortunately this probably won't change any time soon.

May I ask how RTW lost the respect of much of the wheeling community?

[mark]

There have been signs erected by te users of Reiter...they are simply removed by the other users at Reiter...
Did they have the DNR stamp (or similar?) on them? A sign made by hill-billy wheeler will get ignored/ripped off, a sign from an 'authority having jurisdiction' will get *more* respect. (opinion)

Sounds like the signs around Reider Pond are holding out.... persistence paid off.



I don't know, just a web-wheeler talking out his ass. But I do know I've been to a couple wheeling places only to find out that what I thought was the trail (and looked like the trail) wasn't. And I'm a responsible enough person that a simple sign telling me the area is closed, and WAY its closed (illegal bypass, habitation rehabilitation, what ever) will keep me on the right path.

[CrustyJeep]

I'm a responsible enough person that a simple sign telling me the area is closed, and WAY its closed (illegal bypass, habitation rehabilitation, what ever) will keep me on the right path.If only you were representative of the average user at Reiter...

[mark]

If only you were representative of the average user at Reiter...
What, keyboard wheeler??? :D



Actually, I know what you mean. And I'd like to think I actually am... most of the people I met when I wheeled more frequently were pretty responsable.... ish. Atleast on their own. In a group, well things change.... with all of us (BTDT, will probably do it again).

I do know that many of the "newer wheelers" don't seem to give as much of a rats ass. Many are younger, but not all.

:shrug:

[jobless]

Did they have the DNR stamp (or similar?) on them? A sign made by hill-billy wheeler will get ignored/ripped off, a sign from an 'authority having jurisdiction' will get *more* respect. (opinion)

Sounds like the signs around Reider Pond are holding out.... persistence paid off.



I don't know, just a web-wheeler talking out his ass. But I do know I've been to a couple wheeling places only to find out that what I thought was the trail (and looked like the trail) wasn't. And I'm a responsible enough person that a simple sign telling me the area is closed, and WAY its closed (illegal bypass, habitation rehabilitation, what ever) will keep me on the right path.


No.

There are very few "official" signs from the DNR at Reiter, and the ones erected by the RTW, TT, etc...do not fair well.

[mark]

No.

There are very few "official" signs from the DNR at Reiter, and the ones erected by the RTW, TT, etc...do not fair well.
Thats what I suspected.