MAPPING FINISHED! - Verify Trail Names, Please

[lupinsea]

Hello all,

This weekend I'm going to say I've finished mapping the trails as best I could and as complete as I could. FYI, there is a total of almost 16 miles of 4x4 trails at Reiter.

Right now, I need help verifying some trail names and to make sure I haven't missed anything. E-mail knowledgable people to have them weight in here, if you could. Because once we finish with the public review / critque process I'll import the base trail map into Photoshop and edit it up nice and pretty before doing a final compilation. At that point it becomes a PITA to go back and change things. So please voice any comments here and get anyone else you know to take a look, too.

Don't bother downloading this map version as it's not the final one. The final map will be in a PDF format and posted in a couple weeks.

Please see below for a list keyed into the map numbers and some explanation. For now, this is what is available:


http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.Pictures/Reiter-Map-1-12-08.jpg


Map Key

1 - Lake Isabel Trail
2a - Powerline Trail - Lower
2b - Powerline Trail - Upper
2c - Powerline Trail - South
3 - Freeride
4 - Weed Out Trail Network
5 - Sac Up
6 - Rhinoland
7 - Rock Garden
8 - Hillside Roadgrade Trail
9 - Cable Trail
10a - Woodland Roadgrade Loop
10b - Woodland Roadgrade Spur
11 - Worm's Butt
12 - Edge Loop Trail
13 - Backside Trail
14 - (unlisted, noted at 10b)
15 - Index Wall Trail
16 - Tree Trail
17 - Grumpy's Trail



Specific Trail Notes

2ab & c - Powerline Trail - While this is the spine of Reiter Trails it's broken into three main segments that I'm referring to as Upper, Lower, and South. The South segment truly is separate from the main line so if anyone has a better name for it let me know.

4 - Weed Out Trail Network - For a map that will be published and available to all, I'm thinking it'd be good to pare out the profanity so I'm proposing to call this the "Weed Out Trail Network" or simply "Weed Out". Any issue with this?

8 - Hillside Roadgrade Trail - This is a deteriorating gravel road grade that is no longer being maintained as a "road". As such, I suggest we give it a trail name as it will deteriorate into one before long. And specifically, hillside because it's on the side of Powerline that has the big hill (mountain) to the north. Still, adding "roadgrade" to the name I think makes it obvious of its origins and current status.

10a & b - Woodland Roadgrade Trails - Similar to 8, this is a deteriorating, unmainted former gravel road. As time goes on and as it is continually neglected it's going to turn into an actual trail overtime so I figured might as well name it.

11 - Worm's Butt - I couldn't find "the" Worm's Butt trail, at least as indicated in the original map. (http://reitertrailwatch.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19) It looks like it cuts across Reiter Pond which to me seems to be a substantial body of water. Plus there are lots of signs and fencing at the edge of this trail (11 on map above) saying keep out of the pond area. So . . . I'm sticking the name on this trail. I did walk around a bit and there's another trail that breaks to the other side of the pond but it look like it hasn't been traveled in a while. Lots of vegetation is overgrowing it. Any objections to sticking the name "Worm's Butt" on the #11 trail on the map above?

12 - Edge Loop Trail - Last time I posted a map, no one knew this trail existed so I'm proposing this name. Honestly, if someone has something better great, I'm tired and not being very creative right now.

13 - Backside Trail - This is a relatively short trail right on the backside of Reiter. As yet nobody seems to have realized it's a Jeep trail and nobody had a name for it last time I posted. Again, if anyone has a better name, great.



Not Listed / Not Mapped

BYS - With the snow on the ground I couldn't find the start of this trail. I understand that even in good conditions it can be difficult to find. Unless someone wants to accurately draw it on this map and post it / e-mail it to me I'll add it to a Version 2 sometime later.

SOL - I understand this branches off BYS so, if I couldn't find BYS, I wasn't going to find SOL.

[jobless]

Also not listed is the Outlet Mall.

Go to the up hill end of Sac-up and go uphill on the blue colored road, take the right and follow to the end where the road "T's", turn left., The trail runs through the clear cut and into the rocks.

[Binder]

Why are the MC/ quads/ hiking specific trails not listed? For this to be a "map of Reiter" made by a group that represents all user groups then all of the trails should be included......Looks like you have a good jump on this though.:cool:

[spidertoy]

there are no motorcycle trails because they wanted a copy of ours for them to draw theirs in on, due to POOR GPS coverage on the motorcycle trails, and since we dont really know where they( the trails) all are, we cant even put trailheads/ends on our map, but hopefully once this one is done, we can take it to them and get some cooperation to get their trails on this map as well

[lupinsea]

Why are the MC/ quads/ hiking specific trails not listed? For this to be a "map of Reiter" made by a group that represents all user groups then all of the trails should be included......Looks like you have a good jump on this though.:cool:

I'd LOVE to develop a comprehensive trail map including the motorbike routes. But I don't know any motorbikers. I'm a bit hesitant to just hand over my GPS receiver to some random motorbiker and ask him to map the trails . . . hoping he'll find me again and give it back.

I've noticed trailhead for certain bike trails up there and I think I can "connect the dots" for a many of the trails but that wouldn't be accurate. For instance: On the Rhinoland trail I "knew" that there was a segment that started at the powerline trail, and I actually mapped the mid point of the trail that headed to the Rock Garden. But I hadn't traveled on that first segment. Sure, I could have connected the dots but I had no idea the trail took the twists and turns it did through the woods. By actually going back and mapping the western segment the trail is accurately represented on the map.

So, for the integrity of the map, until the motorbike routes can actually be GPS mapped I'd prefer to leave them off.

As Spidertoy says, we'll get those trails listed on a Version 2 some day. May be in a 9 months to a year go back and try and get the motorbike routes or other trails that may have been missed. Such as Outlet Mall. I've been up in that area and hadn't noticed that trail.







Final Comments?
Ok, this map posted for about 2 weeks now. If there aren't any objections in the next couple days I'll put the finishing touches on the map and post it as a PDF.

Any last comments:


Inaccurate trail names?
Suggestions for trail numbering system / convention?


I figured starting with 4W100 and add from there in 10 increments (4W110, 4W120, 4W130, etc.) so that if there are more trails discovered off of mapped routes . . . things that were missed . . . they can be added into the list without distrupting the numbering order (4W121 might be a trail discovered off of 4W120 for instance).

[jobless]

Any last comments:


Inaccurate trail names?
Suggestions for trail numbering system / convention?


I figured starting with 4W100 and add from there in 10 increments (4W110, 4W120, 4W130, etc.) so that if there are more trails discovered off of mapped routes . . . things that were missed . . . they can be added into the list without distrupting the numbering order (4W121 might be a trail discovered off of 4W120 for instance).

The whole scheme you have outlined above for trails sucks...just like it sucks for the Naches area as the trails have both numbers and names which can not be found consistently on any one map.

Keep the names we have.

[lupinsea]

I'm getting barely useful input here on wrapping up this mapping project.

I asked for help verifying if the names are ok. And after posting this up for 2 1/2 weeks now All I've heard so far is:


I've not recorded a trail called "Outlet Mall" that I have not noticed despite being in the area several times.
Complaints about the lack of inclusion of ATV / Motorbike trails from people who I haven't heard of before.
And a comment about how trail numbers suck.


Ok, got it. Trail numbers suck. But I can't fit the names of most of the trails on the map without having it look messy and cluttered given the close proximity of trails here. It's not a problem for widely dispersed routes such as the Lake Isabel Trail, Index Wall Trail, or Tree Trail. But for the more densely spaced trails such as Rhinoland, Rock Garden, Grumpys Trail, Weed Out, and others it would be difficult to tell which names go with which trail. Having a short trail number would be better than a long, difficult to fit name.

And I'm disinclined to go with a multi-colored trail marking method (with each trail a unique color) as that is also visually confusing to figure out which routes are roads, trails, or gravel if there is a kaleidoscope of color on the map. Not to mention there are more trails than colors I have available in the mapping software.

So some kind of number system would be greatly helpful. This being the case is there a suggestion / preference for a numbering system? Besides, if we're making the first map of Reiter then we get to pick the numbering system.




And finally, and probably more importantly, are the trail names listed in the original post accurate and acceptable?

Some changes had been made to existing names to remove any profanity in the trail names. And other trails that had no names have some proposals. Is everything ok?

[spidertoy]

I think that in the interest of getting the map done, go ahead and number them, but make a legend, with the "real names" that way the map is uncluttered, and both/all parties are satisfied:;

[big_MARK]

I like the numbers idea. Just be logical about the numbering.
I was sort of thing that there should really be 3-4 "close up" Maps since there are 3-4 highly concentrated areas of trails systems at Reiter.
the one big map thing just doesn't work well, all the detail gets lost. That map you made if fine but honestly would it make any kind of sense on the ground?

Keep up the good work it's going to pay off.

[Kat JK]

Numbers and names is an awsome idea. Loup, you are doing a febilious job and deserve a break today.

Kat

[Comet]

I agree with Big Mark, that's a good idea about a "close up" Like they do for WA state maps for cities like Seattle. Once you get dirt bike trails in there, it will really get messy.
I also like his numbering idea along with Spidertoys idea about the legend.

Just one last comment. I do think some different colors for trails would help. Not for naming purposes, but just to understand which trail is which.

Oh, and great job. You weren't around when this started, but you've gotten more done in a shorter amount of time than anyone else on this project. Good work!

[lupinsea]

Thanks guys.

I'm a bit antsy to finish this soon since I'll be starting a bathroom remodel project in about a week. I'm going to be super busy trying to finish that in as short amount of time as possible so it'll be intense. I won't have time for much else untils its done. Probably mid-march.

That said, I hope to get this map done before I start.

As for the "close-ups", excellent idea. But looking at the map the most congested area is the Weed Out area, the central Powerline Trail area and around Rhinoland / Rock Garden. The rest of the trails are spread out enough to make them clearly distinguishable. So I think we only need to do a single enlargement area of the map.

When we get the motor bike trails mapped out (which will realistically be maybe a year from now at the earliest, no?) I figure we'll have to re-design the map because too much of the map will have too many lines. But that for the future.

Anyways, the "vision thing" for the first map was this:

Big Picture:
It'll be a double sided map designed to fit on 11x17 paper*. It'll be in color. And it will contain not only a map with trails but also a trail index (w/ trail names and associated numbers and trail length in miles). Plus there will be additional information such as directions to the main staging area. A 3D perspective model of the Reiter Trails terrain area. An elevation profile for the Lake Isabel trail. And possibly some descriptions of the signature trails (Lk Isabel, Index Wall, Rhinoland, Powerline Trail, etc.).

Front Side:
The front side of the map will be "the map". I'd like to keep this visually clean and uncluttered so that it's easy to pick out the trails. It will be in color with topographic lines and shading of the hills and topography. It will contain the following info:

The map with trails, paved roads, and gravel roads accurately recorded.
A legend with icons for parking / staging, camping, view points, and mines.
Special landmarks called out: Rockface, three step, the log bridge, etc.
North arrow
Scale
Map title ("Reiter Trails")
Trail numbers set along side the trails (trail index on back)
Enlarge area of map inset into corner of big (probably on front, it'll fit)

Back Side:
On the back will be additional information. This is more the "technical info" for Reiter trails. The backside will contain the following info:

A 3D terrain model of Reiter Trails area in color.
An elevation profile of Lake Isabel Trail (its the only one with much elev. gain).
Directions to Reiter Trails.
A short pragraph describing Reiter Trails to first time visitors.
A trail index (table) noting trail number, name, trail length.
Descriptions of notable trails such as Lk Isabel, Index, Sac Up, etc.





* The 11x17 paper will be difficult to print from home since not too many home printers can fit that size. However, swinging by any Kinkos or Office Depot and they can print it out for about $1. The larger paper will yeild a larger, easier to read map. So I think it'll be worth the hassle. I have severl maps I've made for 11x17 and they're a great size. Big enough to see everything. . . but small enough to manipulate easily in the Jeep. Another $1 and people can get the map laminated.

The map will be "published" as a PDF file that people can download and do what they want with it. If they really want to fit it on 8.5x11" paper then there are often "scale to fit" options in nearly all programs that will read a PDF. To get it printed they can take it down on disk to a copy place.

I'm toying with the idea of doing an additional truncated, scaled down map specifically for 8.5x11" paper but I highly doubt it'd be as nice or have as many features as the bigger 11x17 maps.



I want to get the map finished by Feb 7th.

[jobless]

Let me know when you are available and I'll take you to the Outlet Mall, it isn't obvious where the trail head or the trail itself is.

[lupinsea]

Let me know when you are available and I'll take you to the Outlet Mall, it isn't obvious where the trail head or the trail itself is.

I'll be available some time in late March, maybe early April. Like I said, I'll be starting my remodel project soon and will be concentrating on that.

I would like to check out Outlet Mall, though. And BYS and SOL.